Episode 16: Dr Vera Jones, Environmental Consultant

INTRO: Welcome to the Trailblazers Podcast series by Periplum, sharing the experiences of trailblazers living and working in the Tees Valley: the innovators, activists, workers and adventurers as told in their own words. Episode 16 Environmental Consultant Dr Vera Jones Claire [Interviewer] So this is Claire and I'm here at ARC Stockton with Vera. So, where do you live now? Vera [Interviewee] So now I live in Guisborough, which is on the edge of the North Yorkshire Moors. We moved here about five years ago and yeah, I love living in the region. I love the access to nature, the proximity to the sea as well, which is really important to me. I love being by the coast Claire [Interviewer] And where were you born? Vera [Interviewee] So I was born in Athens in Greece, but moved out of the city when I was quite young to one of the small towns on the outskirts of Athens. Yeah, the town I grew up in is called Agios Stephanos. Quite a rural sort of location. And, it was a very small town, so quite a small community. We had woodland quite close to our house, so we would go for walks in the woods quite often with my parents. The coastline wasn't too far away, so we had access to a really beautiful beach and the Marathon area, so that was really nice as well. It was very nice to be very close to nature. That's why my parents both chose that location, because they really loved being in nature themselves. So. So it was a really good place for myself, my sister, to grow up. And the nice thing was that the city wasn't too far away either. So we had access to things like, you know, being able to go to the theatre or all the things that a city can offer as well. So it was a very nice place to grow up in actually. It has changed quite a bit since, it's grown quite a lot, like a lot of the suburbs of Athens, but it's still pretty much sort of the countryside. I feel very lucky to have grown up somewhere like that. Claire [Interviewer] So what was school life like? Vera [Interviewee] I really enjoyed school. I loved school, actually, [laughs] and I know not everybody has good memories of their school days, but I really enjoyed learning. I loved a variety of different subjects. I was quite studious. I liked learning new things. I thought we had some very inspirational teachers. you know, a few of our teachers I really sort of remember fondly. And yeah, I enjoyed that part of my childhood very much. Claire[Interviewer] And what was life like after school? Vera [Interviewee] So after school, yeah, I went to university in the UK - so I grew up in Greece, but I came to the University of East Anglia in Norwich to study Environmental Sciences. So I did that straight after school. It was a very exciting time, moving to a new country and I really, really enjoyed my degree. The variety of subjects we were studying really suited me,because I really enjoyed all sorts of different subjects at school. I really liked science, but also liked the social sciences. I liked languages. So in my degree we did quite a lot about different aspects of Environmental Sciences. So, you know, from like Terrestrial Ecology to Marine Biology to more political aspects of climate change, for example. So I really enjoyed that. Yeah. So it's very exciting and brilliant years really. And during my degree actually, I had the brilliant opportunity to do a year in France under the Erasmus program. I got to go to Marseilles in the South of France and had a really nice year there. I was on a course that was very much focused on oceanography, and I did a placement in an Oceanography lab right on the coast in Marseilles, which was brilliant. And I also went on a research cruise during my time there. So I was working in a lab that was looking at the Environmental Chemistry aspects. And I think that really sort of sparked my interest in studying the water environment whether that’s coastal or rivers. So it was a brilliant time. And after my year in Marseilles, I came back to Norwich, finished my degree, and following that, I decided to continue and do a PhD. So I did that in Liverpool and I did a PhD on the biogeochemical cycling of nitrogen in aquatic systems. Yeah, that was a really brilliant time of my life as well. I loved living in Liverpool. It was a brilliant city to be a student. During my PHD I had the opportunity to go to the Everglades in Florida to do my sampling. So I've got such brilliant memories of that time. Just fascinating environment, fascinating ecosystem. Yeah. So I'd completed my PhD within about three and a half, four years. It was a time of learning lots of new things. I made lots of friends. I'm still friends with quite a lot of the people I met. Yeah, I feel I had a lot of opportunities during my university years to do lots of different things and meet lots of interesting, inspiring people. Claire [Interviewer] How did you hear about Environmental Science? Did you know someone or…? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah. So interesting question actually, because my sister has also ended up working in environmental sciences. So a slightly different aspect. So she works more on the social side. And I think it all stems from sort of two things really. My parents both really love nature. So we spent a lot of time doing activities in nature. We used to go camping, we used to go to the mountains as well, with a group of friends with my parents and their kids. So nature was a big part of our childhood. My mum, who was a mathematician and really interested in science and the environment in particular, and was reading a lot about climate change generally, about environmental sciences topics when I was growing up in the ‘80s, in the ‘90s, and she was really one of the first people, I think, in her group of friends to be interested in those topics. And I think she just passed on that interest in the environment to me. And when it came to deciding what degree to do, I couldn't quite decide because I liked so many different subjects at school. So there wasn't something that I really didn't like. I liked the science, I liked all sorts of things, and I thought environment science - that sounds really interesting, you know, and I think having had that background from my family, it just seemed like a nice subject to study. Claire [Interviewer] What did your parents do? Vera [Interviewee] So my dad was an accountant and my mum was a mathematician who also studied meteorology and then became a maths teacher. Yeah. So they were both, you know, really hardworking, very driven in their careers, both in different ways. My mum had a real love for science generally, and learning new things, and she still has that. And she was very interested in astronomy. That was one of her passions, which, you know, I was very interested in as a child and continue to be interested in astronomy. But she was also fascinated by environmental sciences, which was a very sort of developing topic at the time. In the ‘80s, in the ‘90s, it was quite a new area of science. Claire [Interviewer] And so what happened after Liverpool and the PhD? Vera [Interviewee] So yeah, when I finished my PhD, I applied for various roles and jobs in research, and I applied for an EU fellowship called the Marie Curie Fellowship to do a postdoctoral research. And I was very lucky to get that. And I went on to work in Villefranche. Villefranche is a beautiful town near Nice in the South of France and a place called Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute in Massachusetts, which is a leading oceanography place in the world. So I did a postdoctoral research in those two places, studying the chemical structure of dissolved organic matter in the ocean. So really biogeochemical cycling in the ocean. Again, absolutely wonderful places to live in and experience. You know, just the people I met, the talks I listened to, the people I got to work with. I learned so much - really inspiring environments. Claire [Interviewer] Why water? Vera [Interviewee] I've always loved the coast and the sea. My dad loves the sea, and we used to spend a lot of time by the sea. Obviously, living in Greece, it's a really important part of our culture and life, and it's very common to spend the whole summer by the sea, which, you know, we used to do. So I've always loved the coast, and I think doing that placement in France really sparked my interest in that side of Environmental Sciences. I thought, oh, this is something I really would be very interested to work in. And I think it was just that interest in the environment, the love of coastal waters and rivers and naturally, I sort of ended up working in this field. So after my PhD and my postdoctoral fellowship, I applied for a job in Environmental Consultancy. I thought, I want to try that sort of avenue of work. See if I like it and… I really enjoyed it, I knew within a few months that it was a career that really suited me. So I've actually been in the same organization for 20 years, but obviously in different roles, and developing in terms of my technical knowledge. Claire [Interviewer] So can you tell us about your work now? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah, so I work for a multinational engineering consultancy called Atkins Realis. And my role at the moment is I'm a Technical Director for water quality. So I lead a global team of scientists working on water quality and water pollution. So really topical field. And I really, I really love my job. I feel like every week I'm learning new things. A variety of work is, is brilliant. And I also feel that what I'm doing makes a difference and has a positive impact. Claire [Interviewer] And so you've been there 20 years, what exactly are you doing now? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah, it goes very quickly, doesn't it? When you start working, so I can't believe it will be 20 years in October. Yeah. I have a team of people that work on a variety of different projects. We do things from catchment management, so look at pollution sources at catchment scale. We do a lot of numerical modeling to help identify sources of pollution to rivers and coastal waters. We also do monitoring of water quality. So we have teams that go out on site and take samples or use the instrumentation to monitor how water quality has changed over time or is changing over time. There's such a wide variety of projects, but my role now is to oversee that team. You know, work with clients who can be regulators, government departments, water companies - a range of different clients, ultimately to improve the water quality of rivers, lakes and coastal waters. A lot of my work at the moment is about bathing waters. I think since Covid, there's been a real increased appreciation for the importance of these activities in nature, for our wellbeing. So wild swimming has become really popular, so a lot of my work is around protecting public health, but also the environment in those locations. So it's been a yeah, really developing an interesting area of work at the moment. I've also been able to explore some really emerging new innovative areas of work, like antimicrobial resistance in the environment. So it relates to the presence of antimicrobial substances or antibiotics that we use in our medicines, which are becoming much more prevalent everywhere, including our ecosystems. And the result of that is that they lead to the creation of strains of microorganisms that are resistant to antibiotics, which can have quite significant effects, obviously, for people who are unwell, vulnerable or have just had an operation. So it's about how antimicrobial substances that are found in the environment, including our water environment, may then create a route for antimicrobial resistance in people, which is actually quite an important global threat. So it's a really complicated and emerging area of work. We're trying to sort of understand the connection, there with rivers and coastal waters, is that there is the presence of wastewater in some of those environments at times. And in wastewater, you find pharmaceutical substances, antimicrobial, antibiotic substances. So you have that environment which might lead to those antimicrobial resistant strains of microbes being created. So there are different ways to address the problem. So the first one is to try and reduce pollution to water. So you have less wastewater going into rivers and coastal waters. It's also about exploring whether the treatment of wastewater, what impact that has on reducing the presence of antimicrobial resistance. But yeah, one of the key things that we're looking at is understanding the sources of pollution, understanding where there are hotspots of pollution inputs and how we can mitigate those so that we can reduce the amount of pollution that reaches waterways. So I've really enjoyed exploring that area of work, and we've been lucky to have carried out some work for the Environment Agency in that field. I love the variety. So, you know, I really enjoyed working in research, but what I really enjoy about consultancy is the variety of work. And for me, it's really important to keep learning. I find that a really motivating part of the job. Claire [Interviewer] What have been your career highlights? Vera [Interviewee] So for me, one of the career highlights is there was one project where I really got to develop my water quality numerical modeling skills, which was something I hadn't done before I moved to consultancy, so it was a project looking at a river in Scotland and trying to identify key sources of pollution and working with the water company and the regulator, and process engineers and sewer network engineers to try and work out what the best solutions were to improve the water quality of that river. And I remember that was a real career highlight, presenting that work. And also some highlights, all the recognition I've got, especially the last few years. So I got the Atkins Realis President's Award for my technical work, in particular the antimicrobial resistance in the environment, but also the role I had for many years leading the gender balance network at work. So I do quite a lot of work in the equality, diversity and inclusion space, I’m very involved still. So it was wonderful to get that recognition. And then a couple of years ago, I think it was I was shortlisted as one of three finalists for the WISE Outstanding Women in Science Award. And WISE is a fantastic organisation and the patron is the Princess Royal. And it was just wonderful to be a finalist, and be at that event in London. So that's a real career highlight for me. Claire [Interviewer] And so what positive changes have you seen in Environmental Science? Vera [Interviewee] So I think generally there's just much more awareness of environmental issues and that has changed hugely in my sort of 25 years or so in the sector. And it's fantastic to see. And I think it's really important to work with these organisations, the stakeholders, those passionate sort of campaign groups to harness that awareness and that passion. So that's one really positive development. The other thing that has happened is that we've got lots of technology development. So for example, in terms of monitoring water quality, we've got much more instrumentation now that allows us to monitor changes in water quality over time. And there are a lot more analytical techniques to detect different chemicals in water. So becoming much more aware of that aspect as well. What micro pollutants might be in the water where they might be coming from. So I think putting those two things together, the hugely increased environmental awareness from the public, lots of passion to protect the environment that people have, together with all the technological advancements. Bringing that together, I think is really powerful and could mean that we see, you know, huge improvement in how we protect the environment going forward. Claire [Interviewer] And that's probably due to Covid, isn't it? With people swimming more and getting back into nature? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah, I think that played a big role. I think there was a general trend for increased awareness of environmental issues over the years. And I think the younger generation, you know, appeared to be really, you know, passionate about protecting the environment in particular. But everybody really - the wider society is much more aware. But I think Covid really changed things quite quickly because we, you know, suddenly realized how important nature is for our wellbeing and our communities. So it's been a positive, really positive impact.I suppose yeah. Claire [Interviewer] So as a female scientist, have you seen improvements in representation in your industry? Vera [Interviewee] Absolutely. You know, when I started working in the sector, which is essentially, you know I work in the engineering sector, there were very few women in senior leadership positions and there were very few women in senior technical leadership positions. So I found that, you know, I didn't have a lot of female role models I would say. But things have changed so much, especially in the last ten years. And I would say in the last five years, the change has really accelerated. And now there are so many women in senior leadership positions in business, in engineering. So things have really changed in a very positive way. I think also there was a particular style of leadership that was particular character, personality that was associated with leaders. And I would say that that has changed as well, that different styles of leadership are much more accepted, celebrated and valued. And for me, that's been a really positive development. So yeah, a really big change. But there's so much more to do, obviously, to create a truly inclusive workplace. And I know a lot of people feel very passionate about it. And so I've been involved in equality and diversity over the last probably 15 years or so and in different ways. I've always been very passionate about equality in the workplace, and we have staff networks where I work, and I led the- what used to be called the Women's Professional Network, and then it was called Empower, you know - for quite a long period of time, I think was about eight years or so, you know, really trying to help move forward I suppose the EDI [Equality, Diversion, Inclusion] agenda throughout the company. So, yeah, I feel that that work made a big difference. And I met some brilliant colleagues from, you know, across the world through that work. And I continue to be involved in different aspects of EDI [Equality, Diversion, Inclusion] Claire [Interviewer] What obstacles have you faced in your career? Vera [Interviewee] So I feel like I've been very lucky in my career overall. You know, I've had some amazing opportunities. I've gone to some brilliant places. I work with really nice people. I think for me, that idea that leadership is associated with a certain personality, a certain style of behaviour I suppose, I saw that as an obstacle for some time. But things have really changed and I think the fact that we're becoming much more inclusive across the sector and generally in the workplace, I would say I've overcome that. And the lack of female role models at the beginning of my career was something that I always found didn't sit right with me. So I'm glad the workplace has really changed. But overall, I feel like I've been very lucky. I've had a lot of support and I've been able to really have a brilliant career so far.[laughs] Hopefully it continues in that direction. Yeah. Things have changed and I've been able to progress really well and, you know, be able to lead quite a big team now, which is fantastic. Claire [Interviewer] What environmental challenges do we face going forward from now? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah. So there are a number of different things for me - key environmental challenges, of course climate change, first and foremost, I think that is, you know, a global challenge of our generation and generations to come. So, you know, it's something that we will need to be working to get things better. And that's you know, a big, big global challenge. Then there is the issue of water pollution, which I know means a lot to people, especially at the moment in this country, but globally as well. So there's a lot of work happening to improve the protection of our waterways, whether that's rivers or on lakes or coastal waters. And then antimicrobial resistance, I think is an important global threat. And we need to be thinking about and it's about being mindful ourselves about the chemicals where he's at home and ensuring that he has anti-microbial substances in a responsible way, where they’re needed. Claire [Interviewer] Yeah, that's my next question is how can we all help meet those challenges? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah. So for me, it's about first and foremost being aware of environmental challenges. You know, that awareness of environmental problems. So, you know, reading or following organisations that work in this field or participating as much as we can, it's first and foremost about awareness, but also understanding that small things can make quite a big difference. You know, if we all do things collectively. So, you know, simple things like recycling or a beach clean or being aware of what chemicals we use and the impact that can have on the environment. So it's all those little things that can make a big difference in combination with that awareness and really appreciating nature and understanding the benefit it has for us as individuals being out in nature, for our communities, and the importance of protecting wildlife, respecting the ecosystem. Claire [Interviewer] What do you think will be the most important environmental developments in the next few years -the scientific developments? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah. So I think, you know, all the technological advancements that we're seeing around us, you know, things like AI or the analytical techniques I talked about that are much, much better than they were 20 or 25 years ago. All of that, I think, is going to make a huge difference in how we protect the environment, how we're able to gather data - collect it, analyze it, interpret it. I am very, very hopeful about the future in combination with people's awareness and passion to protect the environment. I think, you know, I'm very hopeful that things will really improve. We'll be able to have a much healthier ecosystems, both on land but also in the water environment. So for me, it's a message of hope that we can bring all that technology together, together with people's passion, and be able to enhance and protect the environment much better in the future for the next generation. And I'm thinking of my daughter, who you know, loves playing on the coastline or visiting, you know, the landscape of the moors. I'm hoping that she will be living in the world in the future, where we're protecting the environment in a much more efficient way and most respectful way. Claire [Interviewer] I was going to ask you whether there was one thing that people could do for the environment because people are aware of river pollution now. Vera [Interviewee] I guess it's a multitude of different actions. It's understanding that little things can make a difference. So yeah, well, we talked about recycling, being more mindful about products we use at home. You know, which ones might include chemicals that might be harmful to the environment. And participating really in organisations or initiatives that help protect the environment so they can be simple things like a beach clean, as I mentioned earlier. So it's those little actions. But there is such an interest in this area. And I would say that there's a hopeful message that there's so many different organizations working to reduce water pollution,identify - water pollution is very complex. It doesn't just come from one source. You know that you've got the waste water, you've got the sewer overflows, you've got the catchment inputs, agriculture, farming. It's a really complex picture that we need to look at. And there is a lot of science and a lot of work going on in this field. So, you know, I'm confident and hopeful that things will really, you know, improve over the next few years. Claire [Interviewer] How has your personal relationship with Teesside landscapes evolved? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah, so I love living in this area. I love the fact that we've got that combination of the sea and where I live we've got the North Yorkshire Moors as well and and also quite close to where I live we've got woodland, so I love that combination of different landscapes and I'm discovering new places all the time. So during the last half term we went into some of the villages a bit more inland in the North Yorkshire Moors National Park. So I would say that, you know, I'm I'm appreciating it more and more. I love the coast in particular and I, I find that long bay that goes from Saltburn all the way to Redcar so beautiful, especially in the evening when it gets a bit quieter. You've got an absolutely stunning landscape there. But I'm discovering more and more, especially of the sort of more inland landscape as well. Yeah. Claire [Interviewer] I guess your work is rivers and ocean, isn't it? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah, yeah. Claire [Interviewer] So river or ocean for a walk? Vera [Interviewee] [Laughs] Oh gosh, I've got- difficult to decide, really. I do have such a love of the sea and a coastal environment.I find it just a very soothing, calming landscape. But I also really like rivers as well. So difficult to choose. I would say. Claire [Interviewer] Do you dream of water? [Laughs] Vera [Interviewee] [Laughs] No. Not really. I do think about my work quite a lot outside work as well. But yeah, [Laughs] I know what you mean though. There's something special about the water landscape. I think, you know, that's, yeah, people love to look at the sea, don’t they. People love to look at rivers and yeah, I'm one of those people. It's just something so soothing about the water environment, isn't there? Claire [Interviewer] Yeah. The fact that you're from Greece and it's a sea nation. As Britain is a sea nation -you're surrounded by water everywhere.Very important. Who has supported you on your journey? Vera [Interviewee] Lots of different people, I would say, so my parents were very hardworking, very focused on providing really good sort of chances for a good education to me and my sister. I'm very close to my sister as well, and as I mentioned, she works in a similar field to me. You know, my close bond with my sister has also been really, really important to me, and she has also supported me throughout my career. I had a fantastic PhD supervisor in Liverpool, Professor George Wolff, who was, you know, a brilliant person to work with and I’ve worked with amazing people since as well. And my husband's, who I met actually in the US when we were both working in research. You know, he’s hugely supportive of my career. We really share the responsibilities at home, and I think that's what's given me the chance to to progress like I have in my career. He also works in a really interesting field himself, and the fact that we've got equality at home, I think, has allowed us both to flourish in our careers. So, you know, I'm really grateful for his support Claire [Interviewer] And who have been your trailblazers? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah, I've got lots of, you know, role models. I guess and people I see as trailblazers. So I, when I was quite young, I read the biography of Marie Curie. I found that really fascinating. And I think it's one of the things that I really inspired me to go into science, actually. And then at a slightly older age, I read the story of Rosalind Franklin, who was one of the people that worked on discovering the DNA. She played a key role in that. So, you know, I see her as a real trailblazer as well. So I'm really inspired by the stories of women scientists of history. And it was hugely significant to me, actually, because of my biography of Marie Curie that I read as a young girl that I got a Marie Curie Fellowship actually was hugely significant to me personally, but yet my mum was also and continues to be a fantastic role model for me, a trailblazer. You know, she studied maths in the ‘60s in Greece when there were, you know, very, very few women in that field and went on to do a postgraduate degree in meteorology. Again, one of the very few women to have done that at that time. And just her love of science and, and the drive that she had and have always really inspired me and I had a very fantastic, very close relationship with both my grandmothers. So they’re real trailblazers for me, in their own way, as well- they both really valued education, you know, - dynamic, strong women. So I feel like I've had lots of role models and personal sort of trailblazers in my life, in my career. Claire [Interviewer] Do you want to give your mothers name name at all? For the record. Vera [Interviewee] Yes. yeah, I'm just thinking because her name it sounds very different in Greek, but, yeah, my mother's name is Georgia. And she really is a, yeah, real inspiration to me, I suppose. And she's been so supportive in my career and has always cheered me on to progress and do better. And yeah, I feel very fortunate to have had that. Claire [Interviewer] You mentioned the stars Vera [Interviewee] Astronomy. Claire [Interviewer] Astronomy Vera [Interviewee] Yeah. Claire [Interviewer] And that's a great tradition in Greece. You said that that's her passion? Vera [Interviewee] My mum loves astronomy. She still reads the latest scientific magazines and books about astronomy and the universe.So it's something I'm fascinated by. I grew up with a lot of astronomy around me because of my mum's passion. Claire [Interviewer] I just remembering that the Greek skies are all so beautiful. Vera [Interviewee] Yeah, but really my mum's passion for science and she's going to be 80 soon and she still looks out for the latest book about astronomy or the environment or or chemistry. You know, she's incredible, she still has that passion. I think she really passed that on to me, and I hope I'll be able to do the same for my daughter as well. And she's very interested in my job, and we have lots of books about the environment, and the oceans at home. Obviously, I want her to do whatever she wants to do in life and follow her own path, but I'm really pleased to see how much they do at school about the environment and science. I mean, she's very young still, so a long way to go [laughs] in the educational system. But yeah, they do learn a lot about the environment now. Claire [Interviewer] Well thank you very much, Vera. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Vera [Interviewee] Yeah, I guess I feel very, you know, I ended up in this region a little bit by chance.My husband and my career sort of progressed, but I feel very fortunate to be living here now. And it's a landscape and an environment that really connects so well with my job as well. The access to the coast and nature that we have here and the variety of landscapes. So I feel very sort of inspired by the place I live. And I’ve really embraced living in this region. And, you know, I really love living here. Yeah. OUTRO: Thank you for listening to Periplum’s Trailblazers Podcasts funded by the National Lottery Heritage Fund. To listen to more of the series, and follow our projects visit our website at periplumheritage.com