Episode 17: Aisha Lama, Founder of Write Yourself Well

INTRO: Welcome to the Trailblazers Podcast series by Periplum, sharing the experiences of trailblazers living and working in the Tees Valley: the innovators, activists, workers and adventurers as told in their own words. Episode 17 Aisha Lama, Poet and Founder of Write Yourself Well Katherine [Interviewer] Good morning. Aisha (Interviewee) Good morning Katherine [Interviewer] I’m talking today with Aisha Lama, in the town of Guisborough, which sits on the edges of Teesside and North Yorkshire Moors, slightly south east of Middlesbrough. So thank you for coming today. We're chatting, it's gonna be a really informal chat and your opportunity to tell us, and future generations, what it's like to be you, living in this area. Aisha (Interviewee) Yep Katherine [Interviewer] At this time Aisha (Interviewee) Yep Katherine [Interviewer] Your stories, your life. What lights you up and so on. So we're recording in Teesside today, but like me you're not from around her Aisha (Interviewee) I'm not. Katherine [Interviewer] What brought you to Teesside? Aisha (Interviewee) So I moved up here to go to University. The reason I chose Teeside was that it was recommended by my old English teacher, my GCSE English teacher. A couple of his students had come up here, really enjoyed it, and I had basically gone to him, wanted a change of career, wanted to go to University and wanted to restart my studies of English. At a higher level and Teeside was one of the few Uni[versities] that did an English degree with a foundation year and also blended English and Creative Writing course, which is what I wanted to do. Katherine [Interviewer] And you liked it so much, you stayed Aisha (Interviewee) Exactly right. Yeah, that was five 5 1/2 years ago now. Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] 5 1/2 years. Wow. OK. Where were you before that? Aisha (Interviewee) I was in Reading before that, all my life, unfortunately. [Laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] And and that's, that's all your life so that's where you grew up? Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Yeah, that's where I grew up. And then, yeah, moved up here when I was 21. Katherine [Interviewer] What differences then have you noticed? Aisha (Interviewee) It's really hard to say any that aren't cliches, but definitely the people are friendlier up here. Like you go into a supermarket and people smile at you, you can have a talk with like the checkout assistants. Like, it seems there's a lot more time up here. I found in Reading, like, it's nearly a city. It's on that borderline, very busy, very hectic. There's traffic everywhere. You can't get anywhere quickly. Whereas up here it just seems like a much slower pace of life and everyone just seems to have more time for each other which is really nice, and there's a stronger community feel I think. And then practically, it's obviously a lot cheaper up here to live, which is a great part of being up here, and also what I didn't realise was how beautiful and vast the countryside was up here until I moved. We've got obviously the beaches, we've got the moors, we've got loads of forests and woods and amazing footpaths so I think those are probably the top 3 differences that I've noticed since living up here. Katherine [Interviewer] So what about then you mentioned moors and beaches. Aisha (Interviewee) Mm-hmm. Katherine [Interviewer] Do you have a favourite Teesside place? Aisha (Interviewee) There's a few, actually. So we moved up with my dog. So we do go on quite a lot of walks, but I think our favourite is definitely Redcar Beach. It's kind of a hidden gem. I think not that many people know about it or go there and it's just the most beautiful sandy beach all year round. And yeah, I think that's my favourite place to go because it's usually quite quiet. And there's so much room on it that if it is busy, you've got enough space to, to chill and not think about other people or be in anyone's way. Katherine [Interviewer] Yeah. So lots of advantages to living in Teesside. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, absolutely, yeah.100%. Katherine [Interviewer] Any disadvantages? Aisha (Interviewee) Ooh yeah, I think that the more that I live here and the more people that I talk with, and I do quite a lot of community work, so I do see the negative sides of living up here. I do see how deprived some areas are. I do see the kind of social inequality. The lack of diversity in some areas and the kind of lack of open mindedness when it comes to diversity. And I think that was quite a change coming from Reading and such a multicultural and diverse area and being half Asian as well. That was quite a big shock coming up here and not being surrounded by people who look like my family. But then, on the other flip side of that, when I'm going into Primary Schools and into Community Centres, it is really diverse and it's wonderful to see that so many different ethnicities have made Teesside their home. So I think that's definitely a disadvantage that people tend to be not so open-minded and that there is a bit of stigma around… Kind of societal issues like immigration. So yeah, I think that's probably the main thing that I've noticed living up here. Katherine [Interviewer] And has that impacted you on a personal level in any way? Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, I think I found it really tough last year when the riots happened in Middlesbrough, that was quite a big shock, I've never seen anything or been witnessed to anything like that before and it was quite difficult to see people who look like my cousins, like my Uncles, like my Aunties being targeted for no good reason, and the fact that people were coming from out of area to Middlesbrough, to riot for something. And when you look into it, there's just no real reason for that to have happened at all. And that was really hard to see, and to witness, and to have that tarnish the name of Middlesbrough because, like I said, the more that I work and see the good that people have. It was hard to see that on the news and that being like ohh Middlesbrough, riots, like all of that kind of stuff surrounding it, and on a personal level, yeah, it was really tough to know that that was happening in 2024, and, for me, I think I'm just very…. Growing up in a multicultural background and household, it was quite difficult to see that people still have those attitudes, and I think maybe I was a bit close-minded and thinking that things were moving forward and to see that brought literally to my doorstep was quite shocking. Katherine [Interviewer] Hmm. It's a frightening time. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Yeah, it was really frightening. And at that moment, like, there's so many times where I wish that my family were closer. And then that time I was like, I'm so glad that's like my family don't live here because that would have just been terrifying for them. And thinking about, like, my Aunties or my Uncles or my, my Grandparents or Great Aunts being in that situation, like, it was really difficult. It was a really difficult few weeks for me and then kind of battling with that and yeah, just not really feeling like you could do much about it as a…young person [laughs] and just a single individual. Katherine [Interviewer] When you talked a little bit earlier, you mentioned working with the community. Aisha (Interviewee) Mmm Katherine [Interviewer] Have you found that's come into your work more? That you've, in one way or another, that you want to bring that in? And if so what do you feel like Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah Katherine [Interviewer] You can do with it? Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, definitely. I think, just kind of the way that I've fallen into the Community work I've done where it is using Creative Arts and Writing as a method of creative expression. I think that I've heard lots of stories, good and bad, positive and negative, experiences, and that's kind of opened my mind more to the good and the bad, but also allowing other people to have that outlet. Like for me when their riots happened, I did a lot of personal writing, a lot of journalling, and to be able to give that to other people is really great, because I know that it can be a really good tool. And then I've got a few projects coming up this year where we're going to be focusing on the themes of kind of like identity, what it means to be from Middlesbrough or to come to Middlesbrough and call it your home. And who really does call it home and what that looks like, and what that means. And just being able to use the creative arts as a method of exploring quite tough, difficult societal issues is something that I'm really passionate about and that I've seen working for the benefit of the community already in the short kind of time that I’ve been doing it. Well, say short time, couple of years now, but yeah. [laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] So I'm going to pick up on that word home. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] It's a really important word I think Aisha (Interviewee) Mm-hm Katherine [Interviewer] And it means different things for different people. If someone says that word to you ‘home’. What does that mean? Aisha (Interviewee) When I think of home now, it definitely is Middlesbrough, but I think I'm quite lucky that I've settled. I've got a lovely house, I've made my own and coming home like physically feels like I'm coming home and when I go back to Reading I don't really see that as my home anymore. I've not lived there for five years. It changes so rapidly as well that it doesn't have the same feel. As when I was growing up there, I'm sure people who move away from home probably feel the same. It's not a kind of individual experience. But yeah, I think Middlesbrough to me is home because it's. Where my work is, it's where the communities that I've bonded with are. It's where I've kind of settled and implemented myself into a kind of creative community as well as a…a physical, local community. And again, it just feels like everywhere I go it's kind of homely, like, even if I'm going for a walk round the beach. In Guisborough, wherever it might be, it just feels like comfortable here like I know where I am and I feel settled and I think that's what home means to me. Katherine [Interviewer] Umm so from the big concept of home to the individual concept of home. Aisha (Interviewee) Yep. Katherine [Interviewer] What's the best thing about your home? Aisha (Interviewee) I think for me the best part about my home is having my partner and my dog there. As that kind of stable, unconditional love. [laughs] When I walk in the door, and just having that surrounding me is really great, especially when I am working with potentially quite hard to work with communities or hearing hard stories. Being able to come home and take that off, and just have a cuddle with the dog and have a cup of tea and a chat with my partner just makes me feel better. So it's having that constant in my life is probably the best part about my domestic space. [laughs] It was quite lovely actually and I wasn't expecting to say that as I was saying that. [laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] Why not? Aisha (Interviewee) I think um… although I'm a poet, and you know, I obviously write about love and I write about all that kind of sickly stuff. It's [laughs] hard to say that, like out loud and in a serious conversation. Katherine [Interviewer] It’s the acknowledgement. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, the acknowledgement, that I probably don't do enough. But yeah, I think a lot of people are uncomfortable talking about, like, personal things. But… I'm here now [laughs] I’ve started, so I'll finish. [laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] Why do you think people are uncomfortable? Aisha (Interviewee) I don't know…. Katherine [Interviewer] Talking about important things and meaningful things. Aisha (Interviewee) I really don't know. Like this is something I've battled for myself. Like I have only just gotten comfortable with kind of sharing love…when I perform poetry, sharing love poems or sharing kind of intimate things about relationships. Like I could go into the deepest, darkest thoughts of my brain and share that, but then to say ohh like I really love my partner out loud like, I don’t know, it just feels like that kind of internal cringe. I get that and I can feel the heat inside me right now, but I think it's just, I don’t know if we’re conditioned to maybe feel like that? Like even when you're in school and it's like, ohh you fancy this boy or all that kind of stuff. And even if you do, it's that kind of constant…chatter about it and maybe it is that kind of societal kind of view and stigma, but obviously love should be celebrated. It's such an important part of life, whether it's platonic or romantic or anything like that. It's really important to shout about what you love and why you love it and how important it is to you. So I think, I think it's just a kind of conditioned into us that we shouldn't share those parts of our lives, that they should be private. But really they shouldn't because how do you know? I think this comment, this might be a bit deep, but then how do you know like what a good positive relationship is or a good positive friendship is? And if you don't share that? And hear about both positive and negative sides, you can't relate to what's good and what's bad? Dunno if that makes sense. Katherine [Interviewer] It makes perfect sense to me. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] And you touched upon the…romantic love, which, when we hear the word love, we often think romantic sexual love, partnership, love. But there are broader terms of love as well. Aisha (Interviewee) Absolutely. Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] Friendship love Aisha (Interviewee) Mm Hmm Katherine [Interviewer] Cosmological love Aisha (Interviewee) Yep. Familial love. Katherine [Interviewer] Familial love.. Aisha (Interviewee) Absolutely. Katherine [Interviewer] What’s your love philosophy? Aisha (Interviewee) I think, I think that love is something that you have to give and receive, and I think it's something that from a certain level you have to protect, but you also have to be open with it. I mean, we've all, you know gone down pasts where we’ve opened our hearts and maybe shouldn't have, but without having those experiences, you wouldn't learn from them. You wouldn't grow from them. So I think, it's all about trying to open your heart to love and also not regretting it. If you do and it doesn't grow so great, and whether that is, like I say, through friends or through family or through romantic partners, I think it's just important to try sharing love because it does bring so much joy and it eases so much. Kind of weight off of shoulders and, and pain really, I think it, it does open your heart up to a lot more light rather than keeping it sheltered in the dark. Yeah, yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] The theme I'm getting is that you're working with communities you're concerned about. When the riots were..happened, it was personal, but it was wider than just the personal, which is a… Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] A form to me of love is taking it beyond the self. Aisha (Interviewee) Hmm. Katherine [Interviewer] You're working with the community and you work with writing. You work with creative arts. What challenges have you experienced with that? Aisha (Interviewee) Just the preconception that you have to be good at something to try it, which is just the most ridiculous thing in the world. Like, you wouldn't say to a child like ohh, don't bother trying to paint because you're not gonna be good at it on the first try and same with writing and so many people come up to me when I say that I'm a poet or a writer, and they say, oh, I can't write or whatever, and I'm like, well, yes, you can. Like you write text messages. You write letters, you know, you write in your jobs. There's so many forms of kind of…creative expression that people do that they probably don't realise is creative. Like for example, my boyfriend says that he's not creative, but he can make the most insane Excel spreadsheets that I've ever seen with like colours and tables and boxes. And I'm, like, that is creative, like although it's not a typical creative outlet, the fact that you're able to do that shows that you've got some sort of creativity inside of you. Same for people who play games and strategy games, building games like Minecraft, like all of these things that you probably wouldn't consider are creative, totally are. And I think that the hardest thing is getting people to open their minds as to what they think creativity is and should be. What's really hard is I could talk for hours about the educational system, but I think in the educational system that we have, creativity isn't kind of rewarded and it's very much governed by this is how you do something. And if you don't do it, it's wrong and you're bad at it. And that puts so many people off. And even though I did really well at creative writing in secondary school, I didn't pursue that because I really didn't like being told what I had to write or how I had to do it, or the way that we were reading poems and then dissecting them like, and it's that typical kind of cliche or like the writer wrote that she was wearing a red dress. So that means that she was, you know, promiscuous and that kind of thing. And it's like maybe the writer just wanted to have a red dress on and I think that now as a creative writer there are creative decisions that I make and there's also just decisions that I make because I just wanted the person to have a red dress on. Like it doesn't have to be that deep. See, I think just realising the creativity can be as surface level or as deep as you want it to be and just removing that preconception that you have to be good or bad at something to…to cast yourself as creative or not creative. Katherine [Interviewer] What are you good at? Aisha (Interviewee) Ohh [laughs] I think I'm good at managing people, and good at facilitating discussions. I’m good at listening, I think. I think I'm just a good people person, which is crazy because I always say that I hate people and I never wanted to work around people. But as I've gotten older, I've discovered that that is what I'm good at and that I actually do really enjoy having discussions with people and strangers and… Networking, which is a really icky word. Again, on that preconception around the word networking, but networking with communities and networking with other creatives and professionals, I think I’m really good at learning and learning about other people and why they do things. And I'm quite nosy as well. So I think that's something else that I'm good at, that feeds into that. I just like to ask questions all the time. Like a few of my friends who I'm not really friends with anymore always used to get really annoyed with me, because if conversations kind of hit it out, I would be the one to just pull the most out of pocket questions out just to get conversations going, but also because I want to know the answers I want to have real discussions or silly discussions or whatever it is. And I think just having good communication skills is probably my best asset and goes into everything I do in life. Katherine [Interviewer] Everything because I was going to say does that follow through into your personal life as well? Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] You mentioned your friends and friendships or conversations featuring them. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, yeah, I think only recently have I really been comfortable with communicating clearer with my kind of personal relationships and being a bit more comfortable putting boundaries in as well as kind of allowing conversations and stuff to happen, but just communicating my needs and being aware of that. And I think it's quite a fine line, particularly when you're working very deeply in communities to get yourself kind of personally involved and attached and sometimes it is quite hard to break that when you're coming home and you can't really leave it at the door. So having those boundaries in place has really helped me in my professional life, but also in my personal life where I’ve realise that certain friendships or relationships just aren't really benefiting me, not just on my physical level, but a genuine like spiritual level, I guess as well and that I realised there was a few things that were quite stagnant in my life and we're just making me unhappy and I could feel that weight on my shoulders and I communicated that I could not carry on with that with myself as well. I think that's quite important. Being able to talk to yourself is very important. To be able to get where you want to go in life and be able to do that on a quite critical level, but also being compassionate to yourself as well. So there's a lot of layers [laughs] to that answer as well. Katherine [Interviewer] It's quite a skill. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. And it's something I'm still learning to do and something that I've always said like I just want to be the best person that I can be. And I don't think that that is ever going to happen. Like there's not an end goal with that, so it's just always evolving and always just trying to do the best by me and by other people and just always trying to follow my kind of core beliefs and values and sticking with that and knowing what I want in life, which is taking a long time to get to. Katherine [Interviewer] Do you think we ever find what we want or does it always evolve? Aisha (Interviewee) [laughs] I think it always evolves. I think this is where it's tricky and kind of quite a fast-paced world is that we always want the next thing and the next thing and everything's always evolving like technology’s evolving like you always want the next phone or - well, I don't personally- but you know like the next phone on the next laptop or whatever it might be. Or the newest game console and all of that, quite physical stuff, but also in terms of our like relationships I think that we have a lot to learn to just sit down and enjoy what we have in that moment and stop chasing like the next thing and having those goals in place. Like, no disregard to anyone who has these goals, but like things like getting married, having children, buying house, all of those kind of milestones, and they're great to have, but it's not the be all and end all like everything should be focused on your happiness and where you actually want to be- physically, emotionally and spiritually in life. Katherine [Interviewer] I'm getting a great sense of someone who cares about people. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, which is strange because again, I said I never wanted… Katherine [Interviewer] You don’t like people [laughs] Aisha (Interviewee) [laughs] I don’t want to be around people, yeah… Katherine [Interviewer] So what’s the weirdest or funniest situation you've been in? Aisha (Interviewee) I think Ohh God right, let me have a think about this. So I used to work with horses and I just think that is a crazy, crazy world to be in, especially as a young girl. Like hormones and horses just do not mix. So I was a manager of a yard from quite a young age and I would be managing these people and these women who are so much older than me and even at kind of 16, 17 to 20 [years old] I could see…I was just like just being so irrational. Like I said, hormones kind of crashing and lots of kind of heightened emotions. Horses are very expensive animals, so there's a lot of kind of stress involved with them but I learned so much about people just from being in these weird, heightened emotion situations and also like making mistakes as I did as a young woman. And I had to take accountability for quite a lot in that job. And in that environment and also forcing other people to take [laughs] accountability for their actions. One thing that I was always taught in school was like, don’t work with animals and don't like children. I spent five years working with horses and dogs and then…now I work with children. And it's just the most insane two groups of industries to almost be in, and seeing it is the people that make it really difficult, but also make it the best and most entertaining thing to do so…. Katherine [Interviewer] What's the most significant thing that shaped you as a person? Aisha (Interviewee) [Exhales] I think coming from the background that I do being half Nepalese and half English, I'm white-passing, and I've lived a very westernised life in comparison to some of the other members of my family and I think seeing those two worlds, but now I think back like I really was not aware of the differences until I think during COVID actually where I really had a lot of time to reflect. And I think it's only in the past few years where I've really discovered my own identity rather than my family’s- or like one side of my family’s or the other side of my family’s’- and being able to own who I am and what I want from life has been a kind of key turning point for me. But I think it does just come down from my upbringing and from my background and I did have a great childhood and like I said, I've never really batted an eyelid about that. About being kind of mixed and I just never really had a second thought about it, which is a great position to be in cause I didn't receive any kind of discrimination as a child or anything. Even if now I look back on it, my dad and that side of my family probably did witness and were victims to quite a lot of not great things. So… I think that had a real key part in my experience growing up and making me who I am and also like that, that decision of my grandparents to move from Nepal to England to start a new life, to want a better life for their families. They were entrepreneurs -my family run restaurants and that's how they make their money and their living. And I think that drive has probably always sat in me as well. So I always said like, I never wanted to run my own business because I saw the amount of stress that my dad was under and that whole side of my family was a family-run restaurant. Everyone who worked there was family or close enough. And so I always said I never wanted to run my own business. But the more that I look back on it, and now I am running multiple businesses, it's very interesting to see that that probably did shape me. And I think I've always had that drive to be my own person and to be a project manager and to be a…um… someone said to me last night actually was on the phone with a very close friend and she said that I'm a thinker, and I need to surround myself with doers, so I can get them to do the things that I vision. Because I'm very much like a…sometimes I have a bit of a scattergun approach where it's just I do like lots of bits of everything. That's probably not the best quality, whereas my best qualities being able to manage people to do the things that [laughs] I want to happen and finding people that are willing to do the things that I want to happen, and I see that like my mum's always said, I'm so like my dad because I've delegated all my life- like my brother would do all of my chores for me, I would get him to do all of those things, like even at like parties and sleepovers and whatever it might be like I was always the…the people manager and my dad’s still the same. Like, I'm not taken home that many boyfriends, but every boyfriend I've taken home, or even male friends like I'll go to the loo and I'll come back downstairs and they'll be like mowing the lawn or like cleaning out the garage or power washing the patio. And I think I've just got that, that similar kind of delegation. Like I see someone I'm like ‘Ah, I know that you'd be good at doing this. So off you go.’ And before they have a chance to realise what they're doing, they've done it. And I try to use it for good. I would like to say that I'm not like my dad, where I just recruit people in to do free labour [laughs] for me, I do try to do it for positive causes. Rather than [laughs] cleaning my house, which maybe I should start doing actually. [laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] So you talked about your dad there, quite a lot he came up. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] Can you describe him for me or… Aisha (Interviewee) Oh my God. No…. Katherine [Interviewer] [laughs] Aisha (Interviewee) How do I describe my dad? He is genuinely one-of-a-kind, so his name is Sham and me and my family referred to the Shambles because it's just…like…if you put a GoPro on him and saw how he got through life, it would just be the most amazing watch. I think he's very much like me where he's got a very busy mind. And doesn't always have the drive to do what's on his mind. So we always say like 11:00 PM is kind of his like office hours. And so we’ll be sat down with each other and I'll be like, well, I think I'm going to bed. I think my dad was just getting out of paperwork to do and that kind of thing. He's just very…um… Against the grain I would say and does his own thing, and I've never met someone who has no kind of fear of embarrassment or self-consciousness or awareness. Like I have a much better relationship with my dad in particular, since I've moved out because I'm not embarrassed by him all the time, and I think maybe it was a bit like obviously every teenager was embarrassed by their dad, but my dad did definitely take it to the next level because he just didn't care. And now I look at him and I'm like, actually, that's such a trait to aspire to be like. I see, yeh, just be able to, to not care what other people think and just to do whatever the hell it is that you want and not think about people's reactions or anything like that… Katherine [Interviewer] So your dad sounds like a character. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, a character is the best way to describe him. Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] You said earlier that you had quite a, a happy childhood. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] You weren't aware of any of the friction that potentially came with, being from elsewhere…or.. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] Having a different background, can you describe your childhood a bit more? Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, sure. So my parents have a very unconventional relationship in the fact that my dad was the oldest of his siblings, and he was kind of…like a very kind of traditional role that he would be the man of the house. He would marry a nice Nepalese lady and that would be great. And then him and my mum met at University and ended up, kind of obviously having a relationship, and then it was all kept very hidden from…well I say hidden, a few people definitely knew, but yeah, it was, remained very hidden for a long time and then they decided that they would go their separate ways. My mum wanted to go travelling. My dad was to go back to Reading and to go and run the restaurant, take over from his dad. And then my mum made her way travelling, got to Greece and then discovered that she was pregnant with me. So my dad, he came out to Greece and they spent lots of time talking, and then decided that he wanted to obviously be a part of, of that life and that, that was going to be their future and then it's a little bit hazy, but from what I can gather, it did take a while for him to tell his family about me, as in like, I'm pretty sure I was already born at that point, so that was [laughs] like nothing they could do. And then, I think it did take a while for that side of my family to accept my mum as a white woman. As a westernised woman coming into the family as such. Again, this is all stuff that I kind of start to pick up on later, kind of in my teenage years, and as I got older and more aware of it. But I mean in terms of me, like, my family have always accepted me, obviously I'm the grandchild. I was the first born of that kind of generation, which is quite a… Yeah, a bit of pressure on me, but yeah, I think I had that same sort of pressure off my dad. Like, I just want to do well. But now I consider it. I think it's more pressure that I put on myself. And I think I've got so many cousins and, like, we're all brothers and sisters essentially, we're all very close. And I spent a lot of my time around them when I was younger. The kind of Nepalese community have a very close way of working in that kind of familial units where everyone looks after everyone's kids and it's just, it takes a village and it really does. So I have some really, really fond memories of staying with multiple different cousins, with my aunties. Obviously like the food was wonderful and that's always been a big part of my life as food as well. So yeah my childhood was just full of being around my cousins and friends and being surrounded by fun and happiness. And I think my parents always strived very much to keep me and my brother sheltered from any kind of outside trouble or like negative things. And although we probably didn't realise how good we had it in that sense, I don't think we were super well-off or anything in terms of money, but my dad worked very hard. He worked, obviously running a restaurant, so he worked late quite a lot and my mum worked her way up in the Council. She worked in Children Services and Family Services. And they worked very hard, like both of them, from both aspects, and I can reflect on that now. I think being older and seeing how different jobs work, I'm like, Oh my gosh, I can't believe that was what my parents were doing whilst managing 2 young children. And then we also went travelling quite a lot as a young family. So we went to Thailand for 3 months when I was 8 and I had my 9th birthday out there and my brother's five years younger than me. So I remember that. I have, as you can imagine, the most amazing memories of that. And they always just wanted to give us, I think those life experiences, and to make sure that we were kind of humble and grateful for everything that they were providing us or work, not providing us but working for. And I think that now I look back like I wasn't as grateful as I probably should have been. But I am now, and I have like said to them, you know, we talk about these trips that we went on and those sorts of things. And I say like, I am like it was the best times of my life. And I think, again, like I probably did struggle with my identity all through my childhood. But I feel like it didn't really come apparent until my late teens. And then I did have, like, quite a lot of trouble. Sitting in at secondary school- like the usual story, you know, like friendships and angsty teenager, like, depressed teenager, like, all of that, like, kind of, was very resonant in my life and I've definitely had anxiety from like a very young age as well. Like I remember certain things when I think back on like the five year old should not been so concerned about those sorts of things, like with my parents are parked on double yellows like that sort of thing, and I remember that kind of anxiety feeling. Again, I think more on reflection as an adult looking back, I can remember how I felt and remembering those emotions. See how I think that although it was very happy and everything was given to me that I ever needed and wanted, there was definitely some underlying…um… mental health aspects that were probably creeping up because again, like I'm quite good at, is masking the right word? Yeah, to mask, to be OK on the outside, I've always been good at that. And…I don't think anyone really realised how bad my anxiety was until it got to the point where I, like, couldn't cope with it, which was around kind of like GCSE level. I think that was when it got quite bad and yeah, just kind of…that lack of identity, I think as well and kind of clocking like what I was going to do with my life and all these big questions. And the pressure of, stupid pressure of secondary school and GCSEs like. Now I look back on it I'm like God like I was a mess. I remember being an absolute wreck before my Maths GCSE and now I look back and I'm like it's so ridiculous the state that I got myself into for that, and then I ended up doing, by some miracle -I'm sure that they swapped the papers or something - but I managed to get a B [grade] in Maths, which an absolute insane achievement. But those sorts of pressures that I put on myself, and I think because academically I was quite good, I didn't really get any notice of how bad like underneath everything was. And maybe that was a bit on my part like I didn't show it, I didn't speak about it. It was very internal and that was around the time, like the Internet was rife and Snapchat and Facebook and Messenger and all of those things were very exciting, very new. But I very quickly fell into the kind of bad sides there. And in terms of, like, my own kind of… Yeah, like mental state of mind. Like, just chasing bad things and getting myself into situations I shouldn't have. And no but also, now I look back on it I’m like I don't blame myself because I was a child. And you know the people that were taking advantage of me or that were kind of causing me to feel how I was feeling or putting me in situations. They were adults and they should have known better. And that I can't, you know, be too harsh of myself, because if I was speaking to a child who was going through what I was going through, I would say it's not your fault. You're a minor [laughs] like you have not developed yet. So I think the past few years I've done a lot of reflecting on everything that I've been through and everything I've done and it's hard to say that I don't have any regrets, but I really try not to be regretful. Because I do think everything happens for a reason and I can look back on those experiences and say like, yes, I really had a messed up view of kind of what a relationship should be or where I should get kind of noticed and attention from and like what that was and I think now I look back on it, and I can see…how bad that was, that that allowed me to then know what I didn't want in the future, and I did definitely have some very, very bad relationships as an older teenager, and kind of getting myself again into the kind of…I wouldn't go as far as abusive, but just not healthy and very toxic relationships. And thinking that that was normal because you know, like now I know the words for it: Gaslighting, Love Bombing. Like all of that kind of stuff. And I'm very hyper aware of that now. And I think that that has also grown a lot of my way of treating my friends and having conversations with friends now, who I can see traits of these kind of negative relationships and, and toxic behaviours. And I do try and call out these behaviours because I know how disturbing it can be. But I also know how great life can be after once you've kind of realised yourself. So I think, yeah, like my childhood, going back to my childhood, don’t really know how [laughs] I got to this point. But yeah, I think my childhood was great, but there was definitely underlying issues for me that I have now only become apparent as I've gotten older and actually forced myself to take the time to reflect. And I haven't just gone through my kind of early to now late 20s [years old] with blinkers on and that I am being quite critical and reviewing my life and the decisions that I've made and how I feel and my emotions and all that kind of stuff. And I think it's really hard to do like it's so hard to almost hold yourself accountable. But also just to face those things that you don't want to think about, but that has helped me a lot with overcoming my anxiety in a weird way. Like facing those fears and kind of really talking them out with myself. It's really helped me grow as a person and has actually now like developed into…I feel like I'm not masking with confidence, but I actually do have confidence now. So yeah, that's been like a good part of reflecting on my childhood and reflecting on the good, the bad and the really ugly. Yeah. [laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] There's a lot of compassion when you talk about other people… Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] And it feels like you’ve come into a compassionate place with yourself. We've talked on identity and that potentially is underlying this anxiety. And then touching on the socials you mentioned the two biggies, you know, Facebook and, and that, and there’s this conflict or that ritual we don't think we have, right of passages Aisha (Interviewee) Hmm. Katherine [Interviewer] as teenagers in this country particularly. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah Katherine [Interviewer] But actually GCSEs hit at the same time as the H word hormones. Aisha (Interviewee) [Laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] And I always think that's a really tricky time for teenagers Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] And the conflict between wanting to be seen. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] And not being seen. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] How does that shape in a social media context? Aisha (Interviewee) Mmm…I think, yeah. It’s Interesting you say that. So last year me and my now business partner Chris from Open Door Art, we went into a secondary school and we delivered a workshop that was called I am 15 and we were having quite small groups of girls and boys in this school and just talking about what was going on, like, what is it like to be 15? And it was just insane that all of them were saying things. And I was like, this is my story. Like, this is exactly what happened to me. And it is the same behaviours like and yeah, it was like 10 years ago. That is the exact situation I was in you're still using like Snapchat, you're still feeling peer-pressured too…now it's vaping rather than smoking or, you know, all of these things, or to send nudes. And then it's just those kind of… Unreasonable actions and comments that they make like Oh well, I need to act this way because this person will then approve of me and that kind of stuff and going in as a 26 year old like that was me 10 years ago. It wasn't surprising, but it was still very difficult to hear that those are the same issues that are cropping up, that I wish someone would have helped me deal with when I was 16, or when I was 15 [years old] or.. Even now, it's like 13,14 [years old] It is getting earlier the problems with social media and Internet access, and I think you don't think about the longer term impact that it has on you. But like I'm sat here like I said 10 years ago, it was when I had those experiences and I still think about them now and obviously like I think that I'm quite emotionally aware and have a higher level of emotional intelligence. So for other people who aren't able to face that, I feel like there is that chance that you become stagnant in that kind of mindset. And that is behaviours. I don't know what the answer is. I think that we just have to have these conversations with teenagers and it can't come from parents and it can't come from teachers. It has to be people who are coming in from the outside and providing a true, safe and non-judgmental space. And that was what me and Chris were able to do that day. I remember finishing the day and I said to Chris I was just like: This needs to happen every week like these kids have gotten so much out of that kind of 45 [minutes], maybe an hour session. But like is that it? Like, what do we do now, where do we go with this? Like a lot of stuff that they said was kind of saying, you know, they don't feel like they can talk to their teachers, they don't feel like they can talk to their parents. And I completely get that. Like, I don't wanna tell my parents what people are talking to me about on the Internet. I don't wanna tell my teachers what I was seeing on Tumblr or Snapchat or any of that. And we were using creative activities to kind of facilitate these discussions. So as soon as their hands are busy they kind of stop filtering themselves and we kind of said, you know, don't worry about swearing, don't worry about saying anything like the only time we're ever going to share anything is if, you know, we need to break confidentiality, as if you are going to harm yourself or potentially harm others or that harm is gonna come unto you. And just really making that clear from the offset and putting those boundaries in place and setting that outline. It gave these young people an outlet and like I said, it's just something that needs to happen every week and I don't know what the answer is. I know that there's not the funds to do it, but every child needs to have some form of counselling I think, and that was an issue for me when I was younger. I got put on the CAMHS waiting list and it was like 24 months or something. So I got put on when I was like 14 or 15 [years old] and I was like, well, I'll be too old by the time I’m at the top of the waiting list. So what's the point? And then luckily I've managed to find some counselling through a charity, but again, like it shouldn’t be charitable organisations who are offering these essential services, and I think it's just really important that we start thinking about attacking problems from the root rather than dealing with all of the problems that come with it later on in life. And that can cause, you know, abusive relationships, domestic violence, discrimination, close mindedness. All of these anti-social behaviours like all of this stuff can be prevented from early years prevention. And again it's all about talking and it's all about finding safe ways to express yourself or you don't feel judged and you don't feel like you're gonna have repercussions coming back at you because you say something that maybe isn't great Like, oh, you know, you mentioned that you're vaping, like we're not going to go and call the police on you, do you know what I mean, like, it's just having those safe spaces to, to talk about it and actually also challenging those behaviours and those opinions that young people have. And I think it's even more important now when we have podcasters like Andrew Tate and those sort of right wing… Let's call it what it is. Misogynistic, discriminative podcasts that are going out and are so easily accessible and young boys and young girls hear this and they take on so much more than they realise. And, you know, as a teenager, you think you have your own brain, but you really don't. It's still developing and all of these words and voices and thoughts and opinions kind of implement themselves in you, and that forms part of your identity, and it's about being held accountable and actually saying, well, do you actually believe what you're saying because it sounds like you're just repeating what has been said to you? And what is said in your friendship group. And a lot of times, when you challenge these young people, you can have a debate and you can have a discussion and you'll get to the root of why they are actually saying these things. And quite often it is that it’s just that constant. That's how you should behave. That's how boys behave. That's how men behave. And actually like, why is that? How men behave, like. What does that actually benefit? And you can have really beneficial conversations with them. But doing it once a year for an hour isn't enough to make a real change, I think. Katherine [Interviewer] You've talked a lot there about your passion for what's happening in the world for part of. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] Where you want the world to go. Aisha (Interviewee) Yeah. Katherine [Interviewer] And you know my next question was going to be, what's your hope for future generations? Aisha (Interviewee) Ohh. Like obviously, ideal world: I would love all children and young people and adults to just not worry and have stigma attached to them for their behaviours and their thoughts and their actions, and to just be able to do whatever you want to do and be able to live that life that you want to live and being encouraged to follow your passions, and to follow what you're good at [laughs] rather than to conform to society's expectations. I think again, it starts from children. I think from day dot, as soon as you're born, [laughs] you need to be showing that you can be whatever you want to be and that identity I think as well as something that you have to learn in yourself from a young age and it should be encouraged to discover who you are and that doesn't happen in the current educational system. I know I mentioned that before, but I don't think that that does happen because it's very rigid and structured and there's been no real change like across the board from 10 years ago, from 20 years ago. It's still the same. Everything's still judged on grades and numbers now rather than letters. And, you know, it's just ridiculous that that's how we deem what a good person is, and that's what I think is just yeah, really, really hard to witness. And I think again, like obviously I was academically gifted in some aspects and that I was able to kind of get through that structure because I was just able to fit into that. But then afterwards I didn't really know where to go and I think that that is why I now am a bit of a fiend for qualifications. Like, I'll just do anything that comes up like from obviously I went to Uni[versity] I did my foundation degree then I did my BA then I dd my MA and then I did a Level 3 in Counselling skills and like all of these qualifications and stuff which are great because it's the learning from me that I get, but also when I get a certificate through the door it makes me feel good and I'm like actually like, why does that make me feel good? Like it's really just a bit of paper, but I think yeah, just being able to kind of challenge why society is built how it is, when there are so many amazing people out there who don't have GCSEs, don't have degrees, don't have any qualifications. Maybe aren't academically gifted or even academically good, who can do amazing things and can write amazing stories, can create beautiful poems and can create beautiful pieces of art, or have ideas that can change the way that society runs and just make people feel good. And I think there needs to be some sort of access level into the Creative Industries. This comes back against what I said earlier about everyone needs to discover what their creative outlet is because everyone has a creative side. It's just tapping into where that is, and how that's applied to their life. And being able to make that more accessible to young people coming into schools and showing like you can be an artist or you can be a poet and you know it doesn't necessarily mean that you're writing poems all day. And that's your life. But you can do something good with that, with that gift. And whether it is going into community work or, you know, it is going into the corporate world, like. There's plenty of options, and I think that's it. It's just giving children the option to do what they actually want to do. To live a fulfilled life. Because I know it's very cliche, but money isn't everything. Like you have to enjoy what you're doing, because otherwise you just have loads of money. But what you spending it on? Just share, like, you know it's not everything. And for me, that's something that I've battled quite a lot. It's just finding that balance. Obviously I’m saying you need to be paid for what you do and that is something that I've kind of realised now is that I need to be paid for what I'm good at and I need to do what I'm good at, so it's definitely just educating young people as to it’s fine if you do want to go down the traditional job routes and, you know, go and be whatever it might be because those jobs exist for a reason. But also open your mind into what you could do if you wanted to. And you have those kind of aspects that make you a good leader or people manager or facilitator or whatever it might be, and these are words that I didn't really know until like last year: that I'm a facilitator or that I'm a people manager, like, these are not terms that I was kind of shown as a young person. Katherine [Interviewer] You're someone who makes things happen. Aisha (Interviewee) Yes, yes. Yeah, which is something that I'm trying to be comfortable with in myself as well and saying that and like I mentioned earlier as well, like, I've got some big projects coming up over this year and I'm quite terrified at the moment because I don't know necessarily how they're gonna be shaped or how it's gonna happen. But I know that it will happen, no matter what, because I will make it happen. [laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] So as someone who is a trailblazer… Aisha (Interviewee) Hmmm Katherine [Interviewer] …in that sense, who's been a significant trailblazer for you? Aisha (Interviewee) Ohh so many people I think…Obviously I have to say, like my parents. Like I said, I think a lot of my drive comes from that entrepreneurial side of my family. The fact that my grandparents came over, like I said, sell their own businesses, didn't speak the language. All of that stuff. Let’s see er my 2 Nepalese grandparents for sure. And then. Moving on, definitely a few of my teachers, my English teacher Mr Beard. Like I said, he was the one who encouraged me to come to Teesside and he's always been a teacher that has remained close with a lot of his students and I am not on my own when I say, like, he was an inspiration to us and we still keep in touch and then coming up here… So many people, Kirsten,Director of the Tees Women Poets, who's given me so much. Yeah. I think it's definitely Kirsten. I'm just thinking of all the different people that I've met, anyone in the Creative Industries that I've met who was a freelancer or is a business owner, small business owner is changing the world that, that small part time, and through business courses that I've done and met people, one of my closest friends now Zara, she's a product designer and she's creating products for people who have forgotten the things that she designed are really gonna help people in a way that is unimaginable at the moment and, and just yeah. People who think outside of the box and people who aren't afraid to tackle the issues head on. Chris Layfield, like I said, my business partner now for our new company story in studio. He's an amazing artist in his own right, but youth worker, facilitator going out there and just doing amazing things and working with amazing people. All of the Community group leaders that I've met and then I've complained a lot about the educational system, but all the teachers that I've met in schools up here, every single one that I've met, has been the most lovely, compassionate and passionate teacher. And there needs to be more given to them. [laughs] Enough conversation, but more given to them to really give them props for what they're doing for the children that are going through the educational system. Up here in particular. Yeah. I think there's so many options I could go down, and so many organisations that have worked with that, I could be here all day to list all of the Trailblazers that I can think of. But those are probably my top ones without going on a massive, massive ramble. [laughs] Katherine [Interviewer] Well you've been our trailblazer for today, so… Aisha (Interviewee) Ah, thank you. That's a very weird thing to think like I’m obviously these people I see, kind of, I probably put on a bit of a pedestal. So like when you asked me to do this, it was quite a, a big surprise. And I keep saying to people, like, I'm really lucky that I'm in the position that I'm in. And then my friend said to me the other day she was like, you're not lucky. Like you've worked really hard for it. And that's something that I'm trying to sit with as well and actually give myself credit for the fact that I'm the one who's got myself to where I am. And that, yes, some of it is luck, but a lot of it is been, like, my actual hard work and dedication to being…. Like I said, it always comes down to me to wanting to be a better person and I found an outlet to be able to do that. OUTRO: Thank you for listening to Periplum’s Trailblazers Podcasts funded by the National Lottery Heritage Fund. To listen to more of the series, and follow our projects visit our website at periplumheritage.com