Episode 7: Maureen Richardson by Chris Corbett, Teesside Archives

INTRO: Welcome to the Trailblazers Podcast series by Periplum, sharing the experiences of trailblazers living and working in the Tees Valley: the innovators, activists, workers and adventurers as told in their own words. Episode 7 Chris Corbett, Community Engagement Officer at Teesside Archives Chris [Interviewee] I come from more like a conservation biology environmental background. I did biology and Rural Resource Management in higher education - did various jobs like countryside warden, information assistant, education manager for all kinds of different organisations - local wildlife trusts, National Trust, Groundwork North East and Cumbria, the RSPB - that was the first job I ever had. In fact, I always remember, when my son was little, he said: “is there anybody that you haven't worked for, mum?” you know [laughs] he was always quite amazed about how many different jobs... But that's just the nature of the beast. You know, when you're in this line of work, a lot of the jobs are kind of project funded, they’re time-limited so…so yeah, I got into conservation, into community engagement, into environmental education. And then the job came up as Community Engagement Officer for Teesside Archives. And I was thankfully successful with that. So that's where I am now. Damian [Interviewer] So can you describe what the archives does and what's your role there? Chris [Interviewee] Yeah, I mean the archives, Teesside Archives, we actually just celebrated our 50th birthday last year. We hold records, primarily paper-based records and information concerning the four local authorities in this area that used to fall under the old Cleveland County. So that's Middlesbrough, Hartlepool, Stockton and Redcar & Cleveland. Even in a lifetime, you'll never get through all the material that we hold, I don't think, in our collections, but we are the official legal depository for the council records. So that's one of the reasons we have the Teesside Archive service. But we also hold quite an eclectic mix. I mean, we're holding the story of people and community and places and events. We have logbooks, school logbooks. We've got such an eclectic mix of material. The oldest thing that we've got is like nearly a thousand years old from like the 12th, 13th century to do with Guisborough Priory and we’re contemporary collecting obviously all the time as well. So. So yeah, we’re story keepers, that's how I always describe archives to schools - we’re like libraries and we’re like museums, except we keep our stories in paper-based information like photographs and diaries and things like that.Obviously, libraries have primarily books, and museums have objects and artifacts, but there's a lot of crossover. Like I say, we're all like a family of story-keepers. Damian [Interviewer] And what do you enjoy about working there or what inspiration do you draw from working at the archives? Chris [Interviewee] Ah…Gosh. It just feels like such a privilege because you just find out so much about the communities and about the people and the places. For me, as the Community Engagement Officer, it's kind of going out into the communities to ensure that people feel the archives are for them. You know, they should feel confident that, you know, this is their story, this is their information. They should be able to look into an archive and see themselves reflected back or similar experiences. So making sure that we've got proper representation. So that's one of the reasons why I go out and I take the archives on tour, basically, cause I think sometimes people feel a bit intimidated coming to our research room, erm…so based at the Dorman Museum, you know, you feel, ooh you have to be like a proper historian in order to be able to access the information and records that we have, whereas you don't at all. You know, we're very open to everybody and trying to make ourselves as accessible as possible. And it's kind of reaching out to the communities and bringing the archives into the community that helps them understand what we do and how we do it, and also hopefully gives them that sense of belonging to the community and it belongs to them. You know, the archive actually belongs to them as well. I also do education in schools, and I take the archives out in the local landscapes- like we do guided walks, heritage hikes and story strolls, I call them. The story strolls tend to be shorter. The heritage hikes are a bit longer. And it's taking the material that I find, that I stumble upon, sometimes that I research and bringing those stories into the landscape in which they're actually based, and just giving people a voice who, whose voices are recorded but possibly haven't been heard for a very, very long time. And it just brings the landscape to life really. And obviously I've got an environmental background. I'm a naturalist, I’m a birdwatcher and stuff, and we've also got natural history records that we can also pull into different narratives and activities which help us to measure change, you know, in this, this time of climate crisis, you know, having these baselines is really, really important. And we can see what we've lost, but we can also see what we've gained as well. And obviously, the whole story with industry on Teesside and nature is also another story - like the British Steel collection, the ICI collection, the Cleveland Bridge collection, and industry is very much at the heart of the identity, I think, of this area and nature is, I think, too, you know. The two can be celebrated together. So…. Damian [Interviewer] So to the subject of our discussion today. Chris [Interviewee] Yes. Damian [Interviewer] How did you come across the story of Maureen Richardson? Chris [Interviewee] Ahhh Yeah. I mean, it was purely by chance. And this is another thing I love about this job is that you just do not know what you're going to uncover, and how you're actually going to uncover it, and where it's going to lead you. I had a stall at the Discovering Collections Discovering Communities conference - that was at Durham last year and it’s coming back to Durham this year in July. And it was part of like the History Day, just for a day. We had various archives, had stalls and, you know, just letting academics and other people to have a look around. And there was a lady called Sally-Anne who was at the Borthwick Institute of Archives from York. I have to confess, I don't come from an archive background, as you can tell. So I hadn't actually heard of them before. And then she came up to me and she said, oh, so I'm just wondering, I've come across this lady… She'd been cataloging the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust records, and she'd come across this lady called Maureen Richardson, who features quite prominently, sort of from the mid to late 1970s. I knew a little bit about the Rowntree Foundation, about the funding that they gave out. The Reform Trust I’d not heard of before, and basically they're very active obviously now, and they give out money to help people to make a difference in their lives I think. Their whole ethos is - ‘you strengthen the hand’ - and they’re very inventive and very creative in how they actually give the money out and what they use it for. She was giving me examples of people who wanted to get stories out, so they went on a journalism course and the Reform Trust actually paid for that. So, they've got a really interesting story in themselves. And she said, I've come across these records that relate to this lady called Maureen, who was an environmental activist on Teesside, and she was really taken with her story. So she said, you know, can you just see if she appears in your archives? And she didn't. So, we just started that conversation, and Sally-Anne was incredibly generous. She digitised some of the records relating to Maureen, and we just went on a bit of a detective hunt, really, for her and trying to find out more information about her, because I was really intrigued, and I was annoyed that we didn't actually have anything [laughs] in our archives that related to her and what she did. Damian [Interviewer] So can you talk a bit about Maureen's background… Chris [Interviewee] Yeh Damian [Interviewer] …and her life as an activist? Chris [Interviewee] Yeah, I mean, Maureen: an extraordinary lady. I mean, wonderfully through this whole process, this detective process that we've gone through, I am actually now in contact with her daughter, Helen, and Helen again, has been incredibly generous with sort of furnishing me with stories about her mam. So Maureen was born on Tyneside. I don't exactly know when she moved to Teesside, but her husband at the time was a chemical worker, so he's obviously working for ICI. You know, they were the big industrial employers at the time: ICI, British Steel, the petrochemical industry was coming online as well. And they lived in Eston, and she just feels like a woman of extraordinary energy. And she was way ahead of her time. I mean, there were so many different campaigns. I've actually printed out some notes because I couldn't quite remember all [laughs] the things that she was involved in. She was involved in things like campaigning against excess packaging, which is so relevant today. And she was…I found on the British newspaper archive various little snippets about her. And also Helen sent me some clippings as well, some copies of newspaper clippings, and she would go into shops. And if she came across what she thought was too much packaging, she would actually unwrap the things and leave the packaging in the shop. [laughs] She did a lot of activism work in terms of pollution, like holding the big industries to account. I mean, this was a kind of, at the start, I guess, of all the sort of legal obligation that industries were made to kind of clean up the act, basically, you know. But she was doing all kinds of, like, one woman protests. She mentions this campaign called the Steelite campaign, and I found one record to do with the company and our records only to do with some kind of plan for a garage, but I can't really find out what the campaign was about. But she got into the BBC, you know, she was actually, I think, on Look North or a similar local news program. There was another company that we do have the records for, where she sat down in the middle of their gateway to disrupt the flow of traffic in and out. And she was also planning to buy a share in the company, and it was Warner and Company - like I say, we do have the records in our collections - so that she could attend the meetings. You know, the AGMs and stuff and kind of, you know, ask questions of the director as to why their chimney was still belching out toxic smoke. She took on the Phillips Petroleum, I think it was, like an international company who were wanting to put big satellite dishes on top of Eston Hills. It was to do with their oil pipeline, something to do with improving communications. And she took them on, along with other people. She was a member of groups like Friends of the Earth, the National Consumer Council and things like that. They had lots of meetings with them as well because, you know, as they were all arguing, you know, the Teessiders have had a lot to put up with. You know, there’s a huge amount of industry that grew up along the riverbanks and you're living cheek by jowl by it, you know, there was no differentiation. The industry was very close to the communities, and for the employees. And Eston Hills was such an important green lung. It was a place to escape, to enjoy the countryside, the wildlife that was still prevalent there, even though it had been the site of, you know, the biggest ironstone mine in the world at one time. And so, yeah, so she took them on. And this amazing story that Helen told me was that she must have really got under their skin, I think, you know, she was just a, a fly in the ear kind of thing, you know, always on their backs. And in the end, they actually named an oil field after her. And if you check on Wikipedia [laughs] there is a Maureen oil field. I don't know why. I don't know whether they had a grudging admiration for her. You know, she stood up for what she believed in and she wouldn't let it go. You know, it's like a dog with a bone or whether or not they were kind of doing some kind of reverse psychology and thinking, oh, the worst insult you can do for somebody who's an environmentalist, is actually name an oil field after them, I have no idea. I mean, that story is one of the best stories I've ever heard. It's just incredible. Also, as part of the Eston Hills campaign, she got very friendly with Vin Garbutt, who was a very famous folk singer from round here - I think he was born in the South Bank - and he was so inspired he actually wrote a song about it. She used to go out and she used to give talks to all sorts of different groups and working men's clubs. You know, she was all about empowerment, and she really believed passionately that people, if they had the information and were shown a way of kind of being able to use that information to improve their lives, to make it actual, to make it mean something… They were actually going to the people, actively listening to them, recording their views. And this would be fed into the decision making process. That's what she was all about, really. She worked with a lot of local councillors, but she never entered into local politics herself, as far as I can tell, because she wanted to keep her freedom and her independence, I think. And she does talk about her love of people as well, you know, kind of helping to empower people. But yeah, there was another song that was written on the back of her, you know, taking on the oil men basically, by Ron Angel, who was part of the Teeside Fettlers, and it was all about how ICI workers - yes, they've got the money and they've got the bonuses and they've got the fact that ICI did look after that staff. But the negative side of that is, the impact that work had on them. You know, that…it was before there was a lot of PPE. They were exposed to a lot of different substances and things. So it did take a toll on their health. So yeah, she was resilient, she was resourceful, she was relentless. And how on earth she had the energy. She had two young children as well and a household to kind of keep. And what was great was the…what she was asking the Joseph Rowntree Trust for, was money to help with things like paying for a babysitter so that she could actually go out and then attend meetings. She was asking for money to kind of cover consumables like paper and stamps. She even set up her own research and pressure group called North-east Survival. And we don't have any records at all from that particular group in our collections. But like I said, working with her daughter, we're hoping to get Maureen’s story embedded into the collections. It was funny, actually, because when I wrote the blog, there was a lady who got back in touch with us who'd been a councillor at the same time as Maureen was active on Teesside, and she said she was just like a force of nature, very articulate. A person who's not fazed - she could talk to anybody. You know, she sat at tables where there were lords and ladies and everything and she wasn't bothered at all. She believed in what she was trying to achieve, and who had like an enormous amount of energy and respect, and was really great fun to be with and a great conversationalist as well. And the records that Sally-Anne very kindly sent over from her archive, you know, you see that… I mean, I've got them written out here, you know, she's writing them all with a typewriter, and her voice really comes out. It's just absolute joy to kind of read them. And Helen just recently actually sent me a photograph of her with a typewriter. She was in the local newspapers a lot, and it was celebrating the fact that she'd been awarded a grant. And Helen said, looking at the typewriter, she remembered at the time, they had a budgie. I mean, we used to have a budgie. I think all families had budgies in about the [19]70s, [19] 80s - they were like a common pet. And this budgie, because Maureen was always on the typewriter, always writing reports, letters, communication…the budgie used to tap, used to imitate the sound of the keys. And then at the end, you know, when you kind of, when you get the little bell, it used to tap its bell. So it just used to kind of imitate the kind of noise that she would make when she was using the typewriter, which I think is just a little aside. But yeah, she was somebody I would have loved to have met, I really would have done. And I think it just shows that, you know, her belief in community and belief in the power of people to empower people to think: you don't have to accept, you know, the pollution, you don't have to accept potholes in the road. You don't have to accept difficult conditions, believe that you can actually make a difference and use information and mobilise and small individual actions can accumulate and can make real change. And that's what she was very, very passionate about. And I just think those themes, 50 years on, they resonates even more so today than they possibly did back in the [19]70s. Damian [Interviewer] So when was Maureen active, and do we know how her actions were received on Teesside? Chris [Interviewee] Yeah, well the records that Sally-Ann has in their archive in York, they date from 1974 to 1979. And I think in about 1980, if I remember rightly from what Helen said, that was when the family actually relocated to Nottingham. But from what I can see, I mean, Sally-Anne said there were a lot of records still in the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust's collection. She continued her activism even when she moved down to Nottingham. In fact, she actually applied for some money to get a caravan so that she could offer an outreach service, which is very inventive and very innovative…you know. But yeah, in terms of how her campaigns were received, I know that from one of the newspapers when she was trying to infiltrate the directors, you know, the shareholders meetings at Warner and Company, I think it was, wanting to buy a share so she could make her voice known. They did mention something about, ‘oh, the actions of that woman’ kind of thing. And, ‘yes, we are addressing the issues’, kind of thing. So I think they were at the very least irritated by the publicity, I think, that she garnered. I mean, there were scrapbooks that Helen hopefully is going to deposit with us. Maureen was meticulous in recording any mention of her in any of the local newspapers. So I think that will probably give us more information when we have that in the collections as to what the outcomes were. But yeah, I mean, the fact is we've still got Eston Hills, you know, they haven't been developed. I mean, there is a communication hub up there. I mean, it's just part of the skyline now, kind of thing. So I mean, I think she'd think it…[sighs] really sad that, you know, she was campaigning and demonstrating against excess packaging way back in sort of mid [19]70s. And, you know, 50 years later that is still an issue now, you know, in some ways we've made huge leaps forward and in other ways we're thinking, wow, we're just… The same old conversations going round and round. So…but yeah, yeah, quite a remarkable lady. Damian [Interviewer] So after Maureen moved to Nottingham… Chris [Interviewee] Yep. Damian [Interviewer] What do we know about her story from that point? Chris [Interviewee] Yeah. Again, it's quite interesting I think because like I said, me and Sally-Anne at the start, we did a little bit of online you know sleuthing, I guess - detectoring, and we found out that, I mean, she'd always, I think, written, you know. Communication was very much at the heart of who Maureen was and what she did, you know, trying to give a voice to people to better their situation, but also her own kind of communication. And she became a published writer. She became a poet. I think she became a creative writing tutor as well. So again, giving people the tools that they needed in order to be able to express themselves, like I say, to give people a voice. In her later years, unfortunately, she was diagnosed with dementia, but she became involved in the Vicky McClure's Dementia Choir, and in fact, she does appear on the first series on stage, which when I found that out, I was like, oh, come on. This, this lady knows no bounds, you know. I mean, even when she's facing quite a difficult and challenging health condition, she is still there. And she's still…I mean, following Maureen's trail has been almost like following, like Hansel and Gretel, you know, the kind of scattered stones through different collections, different areas, different genres, different activities. And it's just been wonderful. And, and like I say, finally, I thought, I'll just send an email to the Dementia Choir website, just see if anything comes back, you know. And her daughter, who at the time was working for the choir, got back in touch and was like, oh, Eureka! I mean, when you get moments like that, they really are quite special, so… And she was chuffed a bit that we were so interested in her mam's story as well. Damian [Interviewer] So why does Maureen's story appeal so directly to you? Chris [Interviewee] Well, I think it's the environmental aspect because obviously my whole career, I guess, you know, as a naturalist and environmentalist… I've never been anywhere near as active locally as what Maureen was, but I’ve always tried to do my bit. But yeah, and I think it's just as a woman as well and as a mam, you know, she was a mother and just, [sighs] just her energy and her dynamism and her resilience. I mean, the councillor who got in touch with us did say that it didn't matter if she got knocked back, she just bounced back again. You know, it didn't matter how many times people said, ‘no, that's not possible’. Whatever. She’d just bulldoze through anyway. She just kept on going regardless, you know, and that's to be admired. I would have loved to have sat down and had a conversation with her. I think she would have been an amazing conversationalist. She should have been talking to you [laughs] today. But you know, if, if I can through, you know, my involvement, the archive, if I can just help her story to come out and help to tell her story and make sure that she has proper representation in the archive, I think that would be, you know, job well done…I reckon, so… But yeah, she just, just everything that she stands for. Well, I mean, community engagement, you know, that's always been my thing, you know, sort of enabling people to share the natural world, to identify things, to understand its importance. Just ensuring that people recognize that, that these stories are their stories, that they exist, how they can access them, how they can ensure that their own story is represented, and just making sure that people who probably feel quite disempowered and that they don't have any options in their lives, you know, the opportunities are reduced and, you know, it's just like, oh, they’re just going to make the decision anyway, kind of thing. But just giving them the opportunity and the power to, to make a positive change in their lives. So that really, really feels that there's a lot of resonance, I think, with Maureen. But the thing is, is probably lots of Maureen's out there. There's lots of people in our communities right now making massive differences to people's lives, you know, really transforming people's lives, who never really get properly celebrated. They never get the sort of big awards and stuff because they don't do it for that. They just do it for the love of their community or their family or their environment or a special place. So that's why there’s, there’s such a fantastic opportunity to put that right really. So… Damian [Interviewer] How does the action of unearthing and sharing little known stories of activism like Maureen's, how does that help us deepen our understanding of local history? Chris [Interviewee] Well, I think it shows what ordinary people can do. I think it shows that anything is possible. I think that it shows that the issues that we're facing now are not new. But, you know, it kind of energises you. You think, well, gosh, you know, back in the [19]70s, you know, there wasn't social media, maybes David Attenborough's programs were starting to get shown on TV. But we didn't really have that sort of understanding, I don't think, of our place in the natural world. You know, we are part of the natural world. We're not separate to it. We are actually in it. I think that it's really helpful to look at people like Maureen and to see what they did and how they did it. I think we can learn a lot from that. You know, getting back to basics really- disruption [laughs] inconvenience. I mean, at the minute, I mean, I'm not as politically literate as I'd like to be, but there seems to be a lot of, a lot of stamping down on protest. You know, we've always our country, has a long and proud history of protest, because without that kind of protest and without that disruption, you know, the votes for women would have taken a lot longer to come in. That kind of protest, and those people who’ve been mobilised to express themselves, have made huge advances and huge amounts of progress in all sorts of different areas, like health and everything. So it is really important that we still have that ability to do that, I think. So we need to start examining perhaps our current political systems and things, and thinking about how we can actually ensure that that ability for people to say “no, this isn't right”, and to stand up to organisations is still possible, you know. And, and to say that anything is possible if you've just got that passion, that belief and that energy and you're willing to put in the hours, then you can actually make a massive difference. And that is really important. It is important to hear these stories and to hear these voices and to know that they existed then, but they also exist now as well, so… Damian [Interviewer] So you were able to uncover parts of Maureen's story as a consequence of a chance encounter. Do you want to talk a little about collaboration as an archivist? Chris [Interviewee] Yeah. I mean, we can't do anything without partnership and collaboration. All archives are operating on a shoestring, as a lot of cultural organisations are really struggling with staffing and with funding. And [sighs] it's like I said, it is like the Hansel and Gretel thing where you've got this scattering of stones, this trail that you're following - people's lives aren't neat and tidy. They're not in just one collection, even within our own archive, there's one person who I've researched, and their life and their story was actually in 3 or 4 different collections - very disparate and not really related at all. And how I found them, I'm not entirely sure, really. But yeah, I mean, you know, those different archives store different aspects of the same person's life, but in different ways and reflect their different facets. You know, people are multifaceted. So yeah, we do work a lot together. Our collections at Teesside Archives, we work a lot with The Story up at Durham and with the North Yorkshire County Record Office as well in Northallerton, because, at one time the Tees was the boundary between Durham and North Yorkshire. And then when Cleveland came about, there was a new collection service, a new archive service, the Teesside archive service or Cleveland as it was at the time. And so, you know, the collections came to us, but there's still a lot of overlap. You know, there's still things that are held at The Story which you'd expect to find in our collections and vice versa. So we have to work, and we have to collaborate together because we couldn't possibly do all this research… I mean, I, I've never even really heard of the Joseph Rowntree Reform Trust before. Didn't realise that there was a whole collection in York University, you know, in the Borthwick Institute, to even look at. So it's a real kind of learning curve for everybody. And also as well as the collaboration with different cultural organisations and places like the different archives, there's also the role that our volunteers play. I mean, without our volunteers who are able to do the research on our behalf, again, we'd have trouble uncovering a lot of these historic stories and voices as well. So they’re a really key part of the whole partnership and collaboration. We’re nothing on our own. You know, we need to mobilise. We need to come together in order to make a difference, so… And Maureen knew that - she was an irresistible one woman campaigner, as one person described her as, but she knew that she had to mobilize the communities and those voices in order to make a difference. So she was just there as the spark to kind of pull people together. And it's the same with the archive services as well. Damian [Interviewer] Are there other figures from Teesside, past or present, who have inspired you? Chris [Interviewee] Yeah, there's a lady actually who unfortunately again, I never met her, but when I moved to the area, oh it was about 30 years ago now, Angela Cooper was mentioned a lot. My boss at the time mentioned her, and she was a very well known conservationist at the time, whose name possibly doesn't mean as much to people now. She was born in 1918 and she came to this area, I think, because her husband was working for ICI so they moved to this area and she was an avid bird watcher, and she was one of the joint founders of the Teesmouth Bird Club, which was set up in 1960. And she was their honorary secretary as well. I mean, there were a lot of oil spills in Teesmouth area at the time, in the [19]60s, and she was often involved in actually cleaning up and looking after those oil birds, you know - so way back in the [19]60s. In 1969 to [19]70, she actually set up the Teesmouth Field Study Centre, which is currently at the Hartlepool Power Station, and that's been going ever since. And this was set up as a collaboration between nature and industry, because there is no reason why the two should be mutually exclusive. They can work alongside each other. You don't have to have industry and no nature, you know, and you can have the both - they can work together and should work together. So she wanted to pass this on to schoolchildren. And they're still very active today. Thousands of schoolchildren have passed through the doors learning about the river, learning about the history, the heritage, the natural history as well, and all the different processes and the role that the river has played in the industry and the role that the industry has played on the river as well. She was given an MBE in 1975 and she also won, in 1997, or was awarded the Christopher Cadbury Medal by the Royal Society for Nature Conservation for all of her services to nature conservation. She also was involved in the campaign to save Seal Sands, cause at the time, obviously there was a lot of the intertidal mudflats and sandy areas in the estuary have been reclaimed from the tide and used for…largely for the petrochemical industry. But she recognized the international importance of Teesmouth. It's a Ramsar, you know, wetland site, so it's got international importance and she managed to, along with other people, to save a section of that intertidal mudflat, which is incredibly important for migrating birds and overwintering birds as well. So she was, again, somebody who gave nature a voice, really. And, you know, stood up for nature and in the face of the industry, because at the time, you know, the economic benefits of, of industry are always used to kind of say, well, we can lose a bit of that natural habitat because we'll give you jobs. Like I say, the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. If you're clever and you think a little bit and you plan properly, you can incorporate the both of them. And she could see that, you know. So again, she was ahead of her time really. So yeah, another very powerful lady I think in the environmental movement. Yeah. Damian [Interviewer] So when you're tracing the lives of individuals as an archivist, do you feel like you develop a personal relationship with them? Chris [Interviewee] Oh, totally. Yeah. I don't see how you can't [laughs] really, so… I guess you have to have a passion in order to tell the story. You know, you have to kind of believe in the story yourself don’t you, and you have to have that passion and just that kind of connection. You know, whether it be like a working class story, you know, from my working class roots kind of thing, you kind of make that link. You kind of have that empathetic link, I think. And you do, you do become very protective of them. You know, you learn a lot about these historic figures. And of course, you know, we only see a certain side of their personality or a certain side of their story in an archive. It can't possibly kind of reflect everything. But yeah, you really do, I mean, and, and you feel a great responsibility, I think, to tell a story properly. I mean, obviously whatever story I tell, it's always going to be an interpretation. For example, we've got a lot of oral histories ourselves, which were recorded back in the [19]80s, and, we haven't got the technology or the funding really to kind of be able to take these voices and actually play them in the landscapes in which they relate to. So I kind of have to translate the stories myself. So you try and do things with as much respect as you can within the kind of limits that we have, in terms of our equipment and everything. But yeah, I don't think you can not develop a relationship with these people, and it just makes it a more… meaningful journey I think that we kind of travel on, you know, and gives it more integrity as well……when you throw yourself into it, basically into that research. Yep, definitely. Damian [Interviewer] So if people want to donate stories of people that they find inspiring, how do they go about that process? Chris [Interviewee] Get in touch with us. Just get in touch with the archives. I mean, I have to say, this is why I'm not an archivist, why I'm the Community Engagement Officer. I would literally take everything [laughs] because I just think everything's interesting. I know that we do have a collections policy, so I do have to put this out there. We can't possibly collect absolutely everything, much as I would like to, because there is a limit physically to what we can take. But we will always, always assess. We will always look at people's stories and give them as much respect and, and time as they need. We might not take everything that people have, but we'll take as much as can tell the rounded story of that person. And I mean, that's one of the lovely things about this job, you know, I've been going out into the community and we've found some wonderful stories, and people are really surprised, I think, and quite moved, that we're interested and we want to record them and we want to collect them, and we want to make sure that they're properly looked after, properly packaged, you know, with our conservator Helen, properly catalogued by our archivists Lara & Ruth, so that they're accessible, you know, they, they’ve come to a good place. I mean, there's somebody who came to a talk just last week, and they've got a whole big collection about their grandfather, who was a naval architect, and who actually laid out the Haverton Hill shipyard, and they didn't know what to do with the collection. They'd come to a point where they need to know what's going to happen to it, and we got in touch and said, well, let's come and let us assess it. We won't be able to take everything, but we'll take as much as we possibly can. And they were really relieved about that, you know, because these stories mean a lot to people. And I think people say, ‘oh, why are we looking in the past all the time? You know, we've got to look forward’. But in order to look forward, you have to see where we've come from, you know, and I think that's really important. And again, it's a sense of, of pride as well in the local area. Just see what these people from Teesside actually achieved against all the odds in a lot of cases, you know, coming from very humble beginnings. So there's no reason why that can't continue to happen. And I think that sort of collective heritage is very aspirational. So, so yeah, so get in touch with us. We've got all our details online or you can walk into the search room - we’re open Tuesday to Thursday, 10[am] till 4[pm] at the back of Dorman Museum. You can come and have a chat with us and start that whole process and we'll help you, you know, every step of the way. Damian [Interviewer] So we're drawing to the end now. Is there anything else you'd like to add? Chris [Interviewee] Just that, it's been a lovely opportunity to talk about one of my favourite [laughs] people that I've come across, Maureen, and I hope it just encourages people to take notice of the people in their own communities and, and to see them in a different light. And to think, actually, yes, I can see now that you really are a trailblazer, you know, you really are a pioneer. The things that you’re doing, they're going to resonate, you know, in a much wider area, and to make sure that we capture these stories and we record them so that these people take their place. Because, a lot of archives, as I've found out since I've been working in them, they have the great and the good are represented, the people who had the money, people who had the influence - the industrialists, you know, and then obviously, you know, they did a good job and they brought jobs to the area and they invested their money, but their money was made on the backs of those tens of thousands of men and boys and women and families who worked in or around, you know, the ironworks, the steelworks, the chemical works. And it's their stories that don't tend to get represented as well. You have to really dig a bit deeper to find them, and we just want them to be more at the surface and to take equal standing, you know, because everybody's got a contribution to make and in society, no matter how small and we just want to make sure that that is represented in our collections. OUTRO: Thank you for listening to Periplum’s Trailblazers Podcasts funded by the National Lottery Heritage Fund. To listen to more of the series, and follow our projects visit our website at periplumheritage.com